You may have noticed that most of my recent posts are animal-related. I’ve been a vegetarian for a long time, but I’ve become more interested in these issues after looking more into it and realizing just how bad it is for these defenseless creatures– who collectively suffer what amounts to a Holocaust every hour on this planet. Yes, every hour.
Today is a day that many people “celebrate” in America by eating a turkey. Libertarians think about things, and so I’d like you to think about that.
Do you think that taxes are wrong because they are based on aggression and force? Well, what did the turkey ever do to you?
Not only did the turkey do nothing to deserve death at your dinner plate, it probably lived a thankless life stuffed in a cage in a shed, never seeing daylight while it was alive. Our basic rights are life and liberty, along with the pursuit of happiness. A turkey destined to be slaughtered has the chance for none of these things. So if you think you’re a real liberty lover and yet you are eating a living being raised on a factory farm this Thanksgiving, I’m pulling your freedom fighter card. And yes, if you bought it in a grocery store, your turkey was raised on a factory farm.
For those who say that they won’t take part in things that are massively subsidized by the government– that turkey would be pretty expensive if meat producers weren’t directly subsidized and protected by our very own United States government, to the tune of billions of dollars every year in subsidies.
For those who say that food simply must include meat, I used to think the same but I have never eaten a more delicious variety of foods than I have since going vegetarian. This is no argument, and in fact I’ve noticed that while turkeys get the headlines, the foods most people actually rave about on Thanksgiving are vegetarian– cranberry sauce, mashed potatoes, pumpkin pies, casseroles, butternut squash.
Ever wonder why people want to drop bombs on third world countries? Why wouldn’t less educated (since I’m going to state for these purposes that non-libertarians are less educated than libertarians) people tyrannize unseen masses thousands of miles away when they are willing to celebrate a holiday by *eating a carcass*? What does it say about libertarians as a group that we are concerned about, say, unprovoked wars, but don’t demonstrate en masse against the government-subsidized, unethical slaughterhouses that are probably providing these Thanksgiving turkeys “red in tooth and claw”?
If you are a libertarian omnivore and I’ve lost you and you never want to read my blog again, I guess that’s just how it is and we’ll part ways agreeing on some things and disagreeing on others. But on libertarian issues, I’ve never minced words, and on this I won’t, either. And I won’t until sentient beings are not killed and suffering, paid for by taxpayer dollars.
And if nothing else, let me put it this way– Sarah Palin is eating a turkey this Thanksgiving. So is George W. Bush. So is Obama. Do you really want to follow that crowd and just do what the masses do?
My future posts might not be all about animals, but they will be about liberty, and animals definitely need some of that. You can help. And it’s something you can do today.
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I took a turkey’s life; you took a plant’s life. What difference does it make?
For a human to live, life must die.
phoption
November 28th, 2009
Sounds like you are thinking with emotion instead of logic. Libertarianism is about freedom; force of government is only meant for protecting human liberty. Do you advocate now using government to somehow protect animal liberty? That’s way too much government for me. Treatment of animals has to be classified as either a moral issue or a private property issue depending on the circumstance. Only the latter should be of any concern to the government.
anonymous
December 10th, 2009
I am on my way to becoming vegan because it is an extension of my libertarianism. If you think animals have similar natural rights as humans, veganism follows libertarianism. Though, there might be a possibility of voluntary trade with animals for their products. Though the problem is that it would not be possible to establish consent to trade a priori. Anyway, imagine a dairy farmer on an open range that would feed a cow in exchange for the cow allowing the farmer to milk it. If the cow voluntarily returned back to the farmer, one could take this as a sign of consent to the trade of milk for cow food. Fun stuff to think about.
John
December 15th, 2009
Spend a little time reading this site, esp. the Projects page.
http://www.psychobotany.com/intro.htm
Plants are alive, and respond to both stimuli and thought.
If veganism is what you want, that’s great – and I think it’s kind of hypocritical to criticize people who eat a just different kind of kind of intelligent being.
Peace.
Rachel
December 18th, 2009
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Libertarian Girl » Blog Archive » Can You Be Libertarian If You’re Not Vegan? Responses
January 16th, 2010
phoption – You took a turkey’s life; I took a baby’s life. What difference does it make?
For a human to live, life must die.
Rachel – you win the darwin award! Plants are alive! Revolutionary. You’ve been reading the secret life of plants haven’t you!
To say the least you can live without eating animals (who ate the plants you say can feel pain). You cannot live without eating. So I believe it is logical to try and live causing the least harm to others. Unless you can define others only as white male property owners. Ya want to try that one?
Anonymous – if I wasn’t so logical, I’d get emotional and go rape a woman because it feels good. After all, animals taste good so its ok. I didn’t see any mention of the government in her post. But there you go and getting emotional because someone questioned what you eat. Because white male property owners wrote the constitution, women should be considered a moral or private property issue.
Seems like John’s the only that believes in the ability to extend a sense of liberty and non-initiation of force to others. Thanks John.
The Green Libertarian
February 7th, 2010
Man! Being a Libertarian for the last 30 years has been an often lonely and ALWAYS thankless undertaking. I didn’t know just how good I had it.
After becoming a vegetarian 5 years ago, I got a whole new look at isolation. I longed for the good old days of defending drug legalization, gun ownership and tax rebellion against witless opponents across the political spectrum. Even theretofore friendly Libertarian faces viewed my newfound empathy with animals as something to be viewed with a combination of suspicion, pity and a healthy dose of WTF?
Libertarian Girl does a great job of articulating the cognitive dissonance I was experiencing prior to my epiphany. The ostensibly sacrosanct line between human and non-human animals really doesn’t stand up to any kind of rigorous intellectual scrutiny. Pricipled defenses of human autonomy and natural rights overlay quite comfortably to the lives of animals. Still, If you’re determined not to see it, you certainly won’t. My fundamentalist “Christian” friends are especially resistant. I guess Jesus must have been teaching about a different kind of mercy & compassion. History will surely group them with those who spoke passionately about liberty, while turning a blind and indifferent eye to the plight of the slaves.
prisoner of conscience
March 3rd, 2010
A little late in the game, I know- but I see your point. My only question is this- is it legitimate for us to humanely kill animals to eat them? I know you’ve (technically correctly) made the point that we can live without meat; well, so can many other omnivores. Are they all inherently immoral?
I’m not trying to antagonize you or troll. I am a libertarian who believes strongly in the theory of natural rights, and when my girlfriend asked me why animals don’t have natural rights, it disturbed me that I had no answer. I suppose they do, then. But then several questions emerge:
Philosophically, why? It’s easy to see why in primates, or maybe all mammals, even perhaps including some birds, reptiles, and cephalopods. But do flatworms? Jellyfish? Sponges? Also, it is clearly the natural order that omnivores eat both animals and non-animal living organisms. Again, I can certainly see how factory farming is immoral by these standards, but I’m not sure it logically follows that eating animals is immoral….
Thanks for sorting through that heap of text, and I hope I can hear back
Patrick
May 2nd, 2010
Another vegan libertarian here in support!
Scott R
June 19th, 2010
Anyone who knows me knows I love heaps of text more than anything!
I obviously don’t think non-human animals have the right to human rights (and being a libertarian, I disagree with probably a majority of people on what humans have a right to as far as ‘human rights’). Mainly, I think the best results happen when people are allowed to live their own lives for themselves. It’s pretty easy to extend this to animals. Anyone who looks at a hog lagoon bigger than the Exxon Valdez oil spill, polluting the groundwater of half a state, can see that there is something inherently wrong with it for people and animals. Yet, anyone who buys meat at a grocery store is contributing to it with their purchase. That’s the main thing I’m against.
I certainly don’t think animals should have any sort of human rights, but I think they should simply be treated like animals and allowed to participate in their natural, most cherished behaviors… pretty simple things like standing up and turning around, seeing the sky, feeling the grass under their feet. It sounds ridiculous, but yet there are billions of animals destined to be eaten right now who have never done any of these things because of the filthy, disgusting conditions we keep them in. There’s a reason that slaughterhouses don’t give tours even upon request.
I think the question of whether flatworms, jellyfish, and sponges have natural rights can be left until factory farming has been abolished in favor of free markets, transparency, and accountability in that area. There are about 50 billion land animals who are killed this way each year, and these are all animals with self-awareness and sentience. We can start with the vertebrates, or even the mammals, and whether invertebrates have any sort of rights we can figure out later, when we’re not violating the obvious natural rights of all these other sentient beings for a taste that’s not even coming from the meat.
libertariangirl
June 30th, 2010
I hesitate to say that animals do not have SOME sort of rights based upon the fact that they’re alive and aware, to some extent, depending upon how complex their nervous system is. I find it ironic that people love their dogs and cats, and would never consider eating them, but don’t think twice about a cow (which is bigger than both of them, and arguably has a more complex nervous system). I would not say that animals are on the same level as humans, in sentience, intelligence, or the quantity of postulated rights, but that doesn’t preclude animals from any consideration at all. In the very least, animals ought to have the right to live. This is a fundamental right to any living sentient thing, indicated by the animals propensity to survive and to stay alive amidst various hazards. Obviously, animals don’t have the right to vote or things like that, because such things are beyond an animal’s comprehension, but at the same time, to suggest that humans are removed from the classification of ‘animal’ is ridiculous and idiotic. If you call yourself a ‘libertarian’ you MUST believe that beings have the right to their own life, and to be free of force against their bodies and their lives. How is it not force to kill an animal (deny it its life and liberty, let alone any sense it may have of happiness) and eat it? That is simply tyranny. A plant has no scientifically demonstrable sentience, nor do they have any nerves by which they could feel pain. To equate killing a plant with killing a sentient animal is to compare apples and oranges. It is true that for something to live, something must die. But that is not license, however, to just kill what you please; if you think otherwise, stop calling yourself a libertarian, and go start bombing the Middle East for oil.
Ted R
March 1st, 2011
Animals do have rights. The right not to be abused etc. and I agree with these rights. I prefer free range chicken eggs to the alternative. However, I cannot accept the argument that Libgirl puts forth, mainly that animals being allowed to run around free is the answer. Veganism does not help the overpopulation of wolves or the underpopulation of Rhinos. In fact, it can hurt the delicate balance of life. With too many deer comes sickness, and disease which can then wipe out a population animals. Instead honest, clear management of animals and plants, and fish etc and the humane keeping and killing of them is the best we can do. I hope that this is where we go in the 21st century but with all the starving people in the world I seriously doubt it.
Joe
July 1st, 2011
Thanks for spending the time to discuss this, I really feel strongly about it and love studying more on this topic. If doable, as you turn into an expert, would you mind updating your blog with more details?
aluminum bronze
September 23rd, 2011
Hello, I am really impressed with your writing skills and also with the layout on your weblog. Is this a custom theme or did you customize it yourself ? Either way keep up the nice quality writing, it is rare to see a nice blog like this one these days.. Thanks!.
Albertha Wormuth
October 30th, 2011
You should take part in a contest for one of the best blogs on the web. I will recommend this site!
veteran attorney
November 10th, 2011
Great blog! I really love how it’s easy on my eyes as well as the information are well written. I am wondering how I could be notified whenever a new post has been made. I have subscribed to your rss feed which ought to do the trick! Have a nice day!
pan card
December 6th, 2011
I really like your article. I my self have become vegetarian recently and currently doing more studying about vegunism. I came to that through a mindful rational approach. As I am not willing to steal directly from someone because it is morally wrong and therefore I don’t believe in a third party (government) to steal on my behalf. I took the same approach when I realized that I was willing to eat meat as long as someone else did the slaughtering, but if I had to do it my self day in and day I wouldn’t be able to it. (if it was a life and death situation I would). So your article makes a great comparison.
Vedran S
January 24th, 2012